Frank Discussion of BPD: *WARNING* May be confronting

[soul]

@Change123 - sounds like you have come a long way. As much as I want to think there is something I could have done to minimise the rage, I am at a loss to know what. They would come out of nowhere. We could be having the perfect day and all of a sudden a simple comment or action could set the most horrible mood and chain of events in motion. His perception however was very different. He would become very defensive and then attack. I never got angry. I tried to divert his attention. I spoke softly. I tried to reassure him. I would attempt to hug him or reach for his hand but he would pull away. His whole demeanour would change. The Dr Jekyl would be replaced with the Mr Hyde.

I started writing about some of the incidents but it was so full on I felt I had to delete them. Suffice to say they were at the extreme end of the scale. There were times, I thought I was going to die and just as many when I wished I had. 

It's good that you are able to find something (gardening, exercise) to ease the tension you are feeling that way. Once when my partner was agitated he actually recognised it and went to have a shower. I thought this was a good move. After a while, he came out of the bathroom. He seemed to be a little calmer but this only lasted moments before he lost control again. When I have suggested that we go for a walk or a swim or just out, he would respond that he knew that I was just scheming to escape. It was as if he had to beat me to make himself feel better. Of course it had the opposite effect on me.  😢

[Former-Member]

@Former-Member  I am sorry you are not feeling good.  Yes a cry can be a release.  I hope you can stabilise the storm inside you soon.  That groundless feeling is just horrible.

@soul  I tried everything.. The first 2 years I tried the understanding, reassurance, the empathy, the sympathetic, the mediation.  I gave my soul.  It didn't work at all, absolutely zero effect.  Then I tried every other strategy possible, not briefly but for extended periods of time.  I even did practical examples and he did those, to show him things he apparently couldn't see.  He'd say "oh yes I see now", but nup.. no effect ..  all just effort out the window. 

So after 10 years of trying, of beating my head on a wall and only causing myself to bleed in more ways than one, I finally realised it was doing me harm and he was just lalalala exactly the same as he'd always been.  It was like.. why can't he wake up and see how easy this could be to fix? Is it because he is playing me or is it because he just can't be bothered because it's too hard?

I started researching and reluctantly found my answer and the answers were as bad as I'd ever feared but conversely, that started my healing because I was then able to start accepting the reality of what I'd been put through and why I'd been put through it.   I hope you find that peace too, it took me a very long time I hope it doesn't take you as long.

[Former-Member]

Thanks @Former-Member 💟
Hugs to you.
I'm trying to distract myself from feeling crappy. 😊

[soul]

@Former-Member - 10 years is a long time to be trying to make a difference. If only there was a quick fix. The brain is such a complicated part of the body. If only it was like an appliance - remove the malfunctioning part and replace it with one that works properly. 

[Owlunar]

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@Tookyspookims wrote:

I tried every other strategy possible, not briefly but for extended periods of time.  I even did practical examples and he did those, to show him things he apparently couldn't see.  He'd say "oh yes I see now", but nup.. no effect ..  all just effort out the window. 

So after 10 years of trying, of beating my head on a wall and only causing myself to bleed in more ways than one, I finally realised it was doing me harm and he was just lalalala exactly the same as he'd always been.  It was like.. why can't he wake up and see how easy this could be to fix? Is it because he is playing me or is it because he just can't be bothered because it's too hard?

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Hi @Former-Member

I think you are a fairly new member here - so I will say "Hi - and welcome" and I love that name

What you write about your husband/partner/boyfriend rings horribly true to me because whatever my efforts were with my struggle were obviously from someone who might have been playing me but who definitely did not care and all the struggle I put in was certainly not wasted because as the evidence reads - I am far better than I ever was when I was married - and my ex - who remarried - seems to be still the lazy stick-in-the-mud he always was.

So - although I cannot know your story you have told me enough to let me know this much

The effort you are putting in will work for you in the long run and we cannot change other people - and if it were possible - we might not like who or what they turn into

So Tooky - @soul and @Former-Member - those storms that rage within us are scary and I remember how out of control I felt - but what I learned during my last and I think final session with my therapist is that people are who they are and they will do what they do and we are different people and it is us alone who can change ourselves - and yes Tooky - that research is worth doing but sooooooo hard

I have been alone since 1989 - and I like it - but it hasn't been easy - but easier now - as the years move on

All the best for all of you - and I like what you wrote Tooky - it's brilliant

Dec

[Former-Member]

I think there is a quick fix @soul.  But at the time I didn't want to accept it.  

I learnt one really big  thing, and maybe it was the thing I was supposed to learn.  That it is so much harder inside it than you can ever imagine before you have the experience. It was so easy to throw out advice, before it actually happened to me. I learnt so many other incidental things too, but oh what a way to learn them.  It was actually a very humbling experience. I thought I knew so much more than I actually did.

[Change123]

Hi @Former-Member@soul@Former-Member@Owlunar

I cant really know what caused me to change as I can identify me behaving in the same manner (ie. saying it will all change and it never does, making many promises over and over and breaking them).  I cant explain its like you dont have control over your brain for that moment and it seems to comes out  automatically.  I too used to do the defensive thing and then attack - maybe it comes from a place like for me my father was abusive so I was always in the Flight/ flight mode ready to run or attack so I think that stayed with me for a while.  I still get defensive but not as bad as I used to get.  My partner was going to a support group for BPD families etc and they believe that what we need and what we want are two different things.  Because in a way BPD is basically a child that has never grown up emotionally, you emotions dont mature and you react in a childish manner and feel extremes of things like a child.  There approach was not to be too sympathetic and also ensure that there are consequences to my actions (eg. broken promises) like the real world.  At the time I thought he was being cruel, thoughtless and just plain mean but to add to this he suffers from bipolar so sometimes he would take things to an extreme which was not right.  His behaviour mainly came from not being able to feel secure with me as I had lied many times.  In my head I wasnt lying I just had a different perception of things.  I really think this hardlined attitude has helped me more than the sympathetic view because if I want peace I need to adhere to this no matter how I'm feeling. Basically its all down to the invidual person , if they want to change, if they are open enough to realise there is something wrong with them.  But if the person is in so much denial I dont know how you can help.  No one else can change them except themselves and its hard work constantly.  Thats one thing I realised I need to keep alert and self analyse all the time, constantly questioning if my feelings are sound or not.  

For example the other night I had a huge trigger with my dog, he is my life and our child.  Our previous dog died at 4yrs from lymphoma, we just took him to the vet for a routine thing and the next thing we are told he wont live more than a few weeks.  It was devasting to us, anyway this one got sick at exactly the same time of year and at the same age.  I just went into meltdown when my partner told me he would have to take him to the vet - again for something minor.  I knew what I was feeling was wrong as I was jumping to conclusions and bringing back that devastation, I cried and told my partner dont worry about me I will be fine soon and explained and then a couple of hours later I was ok.  So it still happens but I am able to see logic now more clearly but still sometimes the body wants to follow suit hence the crying even if I knew I shouldnt be worried.  Like you said the brain is a very complicated thing and one thing I learnt in DBT is how the brain loves making up stories and when it has done it for so long when you try and turn it around it is really hard and take lots of persistence.

[Former-Member]

@Change123 This outlines precisely my experience, well the BPD side of it.  I called his behaviour "tantrums" because they were more like a 3 year old reacting over a toy than a man of around 40. Or like a spolit brat.

i recognised the dynamic you describe and explained it all to him, how I could so easily see what he thought and why he was reacting the way he did. Exactly as your words reflect.  Once I realised the sympathetic role had no effect, I took the pragmatic route.  

However, unlike you, he could not stop it controlling him, in fact I know now he actually liked it.  He turned it into a game and this is where I believe what I was dealing with went beyond BPD because he actually laughed at my pain.  Literally laughed at it.  Whether it was psychological, emotional or physical he took great delight inflicting it on me and he particularly relished the control he had to be able to do it.

That is the part to me that does not gel with a typical BPD sufferer, but I could be wrong.  Maybe I am being naive, and it is.

[Change123]

@Former-Member

My partner did the same thing and would literally laugh in my face but he suffers from bipolar and is unmedicated - thats another story.

I have not done that, to me that is not normal BPD from my self experience and the little I have had to do with others. I usally find one of the strongest traits in BPD's is the trait for needing to be accepted and loved.  This often means we let people treat us like doormats, and do anything to be accepted because we feel all our lives we have not been listened to, taken seriously, accepted or loved.  Usually for me the rage is a defensive thing and I didnt just start off in a rage.  Most of the time it would come from frustration as well for not being understood when trying to explain feelings, I screamed and threw things but I never never make any verbal attack (ie name calling etc) because I know how shitty that feels and I dont want to inflict on someone else.  Maybe he had other issues going on ontop of it. 

It sounds very familair to what I experience with my partner who like I said has bipolar, when I was bad this triggered him off and we just headed off into a downward spiral.  He has said some pretty horrible stuff to me that I as a BPD would never say back.  I dont know do you think its male/ female thing?  In the sense that females are always the nurturing ones and males are always the fighters etc from way back.  By the way a disclaimer - I'm not making any sexually discriminate suggestions dont get all PC on me - its just women are known as the gatherers and men the hunters so in the most primal way I wonder if they just experience more of the need to be in control and it gets blown out of proportion? The other thing I'm wondering one of the traits of BPD can be narciscissm  but each person is different and may not have as much of this trait.  Maybe he has it big time as it seems to be a bit of a narcissitic way to behave.  I guess the only other thing I can suggest is that we have issues with boundaries, like for me the problem is that I reveal too much about my private life and dont know when to shut up sometimes maybe (if you are still together) you need to set some strong boundaries? Hope I have been able to help a little.

[Phoenix_Rising]

Hi again, I'm very much just drifting in and out of this conversation because it is interesting and yet difficult as well. I'm just jumping in to say that I feel super bad when I cause distress to others. I know I am super stressing out my psychologist at the moment and I hate it. We are really struggling to communicate even though we are both trying super hard. I recognise that a lot of our difficulties are due to the complicating factor of my aspieness. I really and truly don't understand what she is saying and she also seems to be struggling to understand me. My previous psychologist (who closed her practice) wrote a really good report explaining how the ASD and BPD fit together as a muddle and I can see that the aspieness is definitely a complicating factor. Anyway, I just wanted to throw it out there that this little aspie turtle with BPD certainly derives no pleasure from causing distress to others.