Lived Experience Forum

[Doc_Gonzo]

I wanted to share with people something I wrote about 3 months ago. It was aimed at trying to encourage the people around me to rethink some of the things they say. It never really went anywhere and I wanted to see what others thought and encourage others to join in the conversation

One of the biggest challenges I face in my current stage of life is dealing with this imposed belief of 'Well your okay now, look at how far you have come'. On one hand this statement contains some well known truths. Such as, in comparison to how  'I used to be', I have a much deeper understanding of my life, my identity and my mental health. I have an extensive 'self care toolkit' that I tap into at multiple points throughout the day. I have a better support network, primarily consisting of practitioners and with a few select people that I can count on when I feel a need. Most importantly I am able to retain a high level of functionality when experiencing periods of distress. However on the other hand, there are still some times when things really get on top of me and my baseline manageable level of distress becomes quite extreme.

During these times it amazes me at how many people respond to me being open about my level of distress in a manner that almost seems to convey a level of offense to my admission of 'not coping/doing so well'. So much so that when I am finding it hard to cope, I place strict limitations on my audience as I am well aware that some people cannot seem to cope with the fact that in some moments in my life I cannot cope. I still routinely put up with comments from people who have the audacity of dismissing my experiences for reasons that I can only speculate. Comments such as;

'You shouldn't feel that way, look at what you have achieved...',

Yes I have achieved lots and will more than likely continue to do so for many years to come AND at certain points in time I find it very hard to cope.

'Don't be like that, your life is way better than it used to be...'

Yes this is very true I am in a way better space physically, financially, socially and even emotionally AND at certain points in time I find it hard to cope.

'I think you are overthinking this...'

I over think everything I have learned to live with this very well AND at times I find it very hard to cope.

And my personal favourite 'You just need to stop being so negative and try to be more positive...'

A person can be very negative AND take positive steps. Sure it is even better if a person can be positive and take positive steps, however sometimes feeling positive about myself and my life is not easy. AND in spite of this one of the biggest reasons I have achieved so much and am in a better physical, financial, social and emotional space is because in spite of 'being negative' I have tried to take positive steps where I can.

'You are just being melodramatic...' and or 'I thought you were done with this...' and or 'Why can't you just try to be happy...'  and the list could go on and on.

I have one question to ask the people who respond, not just to me like this, but to others as well...

How exactly is speaking to people like this supposed to help them feel better about themselves, the people around them and their world?

One part of me acknowledges that many of these people mean well and I know from experience that it takes skill to respond to people who are living with a high level of distress. I acknowledge that listening well and responding is a skill that many people have not had the opportunity to develop as much as others. I acknowledge that many people rely on me for support so when I start to 'drop' they feel under-equipped because I am the one that they turn to when things are going south for them. So when I drop they feel stuck as I am their usual sounding board for advice.

On the other hand, one part of me finds it incredibly frustrating that I still feel like I am not allowed to speak honestly about what is going on in my life. I often get the intimate details of others lives and many only get a brief status update of mine because I know that their responses and 'support' will often leave me feeling worse. I am frustrated that so many people seem to view mental health as an 'on/off' switch or as 'you were unwell and now you are better'. For some people including myself mental ill-health is pervasive and potentially a life long experience . The affects of Complex Trauma are deep rooted and on going. At times this means that there are things going on in my life that I don't often talk about that are having a significantly negative impact. It is not that 'I am negative' and or 'miserable all the time' and or 'being ridiculous'. It is that at this particular point in time I am STRUGGLING with what is going on and I am TRYING to ask for support.

Notice how I have been using the word 'and' a lot...

I coined the phrase 'highly functional, highly distressed' years ago in a journal entry. The idea is that I can be both at the same time, not just one or the other. Instead of highly functional but highly distressed, I have learned through experience and support that I can be highly functional AND highly distressed. I can feel very flat, have no confidence or self worth, feel useless and incapable and still achieve many amazing things. I often do not exist in one emotional state at any one point in time as human beings are far to complex to just be one thing at any one point in time. I am often joyous and sad and funny and loud and quiet and energetic and flat et cetera. What this means is that I can live comfortably with distress at times and achieve many wonderful things and at other times I can struggle with my levels of distress and still achieve many things.

Where I really struggle is when I know that I need some support from people and I am met with disdain and or dismissed and or invalidated. By using the aforementioned statements that people like to say to me, I feel like you are saying that you don't really know much about me. When you say things like this then it says to me I don't pay attention to you enough to realise how much you have actually achieved and how you got there and what you have done to get there and the many skilled decisions you make to keep growing, developing and learning.

In many ways this is not your fault you couldn't possibly know many of the skills I have had to develop, the support I have needed, the experiences in my life that have left permanent emotional scars. For one I tend to keep this closely guarded as I know that people can respond quite badly to them and so I have learned to be cautious with who I open up to. I also tend to hide from people and from life when I am reaching a point where I am struggling to cope. Not to mention that one of the things I tend to do when I am really feeling distressed is to bury myself in things that keep me busy, so all you are left with is seeing someone who appears really motivated, outgoing and successful at what they do.

Having said this I have learned to  hide well because I know from experience to keep my feelings hidden as I know full well how people can respond.

What I am asking is for you to think about what you are really saying. When people reach out to me I try hard not to dismiss there distress by pointing how good other things in their life are. Instead I listen to what is going on and offer advice and support that is relevant to that persons needs at that point in time, within the context that they are presenting it. So instead of shutting down conversation by dismissing my distress at that point in time, try asking what you can do to help. Often you will find that there is very little you can physically and or financially do and that is fine, because all I am asking for in most cases is a sounding board to bounce my thoughts off of to help me work through what is going on.

I acknowledge that everyone has the high and low points in life and that the two states are not mutually exclusive. I acknowledge that people can really struggle with some aspects of their life and be very successful in other areas of their life. I acknowledge that many people find it hard to cope and yet in their own way cope very well. I acknowledge that life is never simple and often involves many complex feelings, thoughts, emotions and experiences that people may never reveal and they may speak very openly about many other aspects of their life. I acknowledge that sometimes the best thing to do is to just sit and listen because sometimes that is all somebody is asking for at that point in time. And most importantly I ask you to consider these points and I ask that you all try to do the same.

[Former-Member]

Hi @Doc_Gonzo.
Thank you for your post. It was really helpful to read through and made me consider and reflect on my responses. It also made me think of this short video on empathy vs sympathy by Brene Brown
https://youtu.be/1Evwgu369Jw
I think those responses that you listed usually come from a place of ignorance and not being able to put yourself in someone's shoes (empathy). I find it difficult sometimes responding to posts to people whose experiences are very different to mine. Or my real life experiences too. It doesn't mean I don't care but sometimes it's hard to connect to the way someone feels. I think that as awareness grows so will empathy. Just my thoughts. Thanks for the post. 🤗💜

[Lunar]

Hi there @Doc_Gonzo

Thank you for sharing this is depth and understanding of your communicating with others, you have so much helpful insight to your mind and feelings. I definitely do not think you are alone in this struggle, even for people who don't have mental health issues this is a commmon struggle with emotional intelligence.

Most people do not have the awareness of how they are effecting others with their lack of emotional understanding, so when it comes to hearing of anothers struggles they are simply unable to cope with that uncomfortable feeling of knowing that the other isn't coping well, their way of coping with this is deflecting the issue and coming up with a positive (problem solving mode) which can shut the other down and they are left feeling unheard and unvalidated.

I have struggled with this over time, and it makes me want to shut down and then I get frustrated and irritated, which is the opposite of how I want to feel. So I am really tying to respond by telling them this in a way they will understand, so I have actually said to friends and family before "Thank you for coming up with some solutions to my problems but I feel lquite frustrated with this and it is making me want to shut down so I'd really just like you to sit with me and understand where I am coming from, not solve my problems but just listen, are you able to do that for the next half an hour, is that okay with you?"

When I have said this in a calm way people generally feel okay with it and then I feel like I have been honest and heard, they also get rewarded because they feel they have helped without the worry of coming up with solutions.

It's a constant struggle though when you are the one who is always aware of others and how they are doing but they still react in this way, here for you

Lunar

[Doc_Gonzo]

@Former-Member

Brene brown is one of my gurus. Her books are fantastic reads.

I think what bothers me the most about what is going on for me at the moment is that I have no aveneue to outlet outside of my therapists walls. I have always been very open about my mental health and have tried to explain and invite opportunities for open conversation from others about 'their experiences' with my mental health. However they are just not interested. Even things like, send me a message once in a while, is too much to expect from family and friends.

I try where I can to make time for others, I am the one who keeps in contact witht them and if I don't I end up in the position I am in now. Sitting alone at thome wondering why I have ever bothered doing anything.

I am always the first to reach out to others and when we speak it is about what has been going on in their lives or else conversation just stops. I get so sick of automated responses that people know make me feel worse. That I just stop speaking about myself and my life (what little life I have) and focus conversation on them.

I am losing interest in people out side of work because it has been such a hard battle to be recognised as human and valid and as having worth (outside of work), so I stop trying. In the end my world just becomes work and work only because that seems to be the only thing I can do well.

[Doc_Gonzo]

@Lunar

I have tried speaking honestly about how certain things make me feel and all this has led to is me being attacked, shut down or shut out.

I gave up on being honest with the people around me as in the end any effort to encourage change or insight leaves me feeling like crap. I have even sat with my psychologist and rehearsed saying phrases to highlight what I am feeling  to say to specific people, once again this never ends well for me as the people around me really have zero emotional intelligence. In the end I am always to blame because I just need to let go /get over/move on [insert invalidating dissmissive comment here].

The only thing I have found that helps me to reconcile this frustration is to lower my expectations of the people around me. To focus on the little things I get from them that matter and remain hopeful that I will find people I feel more comfortable talking with who leave me feeling validated and heard.

Still looking, still waiting, been most of my life now!

[Lunar]

Hello @Doc_Gonzo

That does sound completely unvalidating being told to get over it/move on and being attacked, I am so sorry that has been your experiences most of your life, I hope you are able to be heard in your sessions with your Psychologists and perhaps once lowering your expectations of others around you, you will be able to not be always disappointed. Unfortunately having those high expectations does lead to disappointment so it can take time to do this, but I also struggle with this and I think it's because I place these high expectations on myself and have also had those expectations and values placed on me from my childhood.

Apparently it takes about 2-5years to change or adjust your values, and until you change them you continue to feel unvalidated. It's like when someone is goodlooking, but they themselves do not feel goodlooking, by telling them they are goodlooking, you are in fact invalidating them. Until they feel goodlooking they will always feel unvalidated when the person thinks they are doing the right thing by giving them that positive feedback. It is so tricky!

Do you talk about your values, attitudes and beliefs a lot in your sessions?

Oh and I love Brene Brown too @Former-Member !! Intimacy is fascinating, it heals everything and if you ask a Psychologist what releases serotonin most of them don't know that it is intimacy, so interesting!

Lunar 🙂

[Doc_Gonzo]

@LunarI don't think I quite articulated myself as clear as I perhaps could have.

My expectations of people have been adjusted so much that I almost expect nothing of most people around me. I have learned to recognise the small practical and important things I get from my relationships and have built a strong picture of how these many little things fit together. In a sense I recognise that while my relationships are not ideal they do have many aspects that are very practical in nature.

My mother is a good example, when I stopped expecting her to act like a 'mother'. Our relationship improved significantly and she will never know that the reason we get along so well now is because I work so hard at making the  work. Through things like setting and maintaining boundaries, steering conversations away from topics that will lead to fights (such as my mental health). I stopped wanting my mother to treat me like her son and instead focused on the aspects of our relationship that work well. If that makes sense?

Values have always been at the forefront of discussion with me as I wear my values and principles like a skin. They are out there for people to see what is important to me and they test the quality of the people around me. I am very respectful in a sense that I identify quickly the things that people take pride in and make effort to engage with them on that level.

What is missing is any sense of reciprocation. I make a lot of effort to delve into and engage with the interests, quirks and values of others and feel that people make no effort to do this with me. For example, most of my friends could not tell you what I studied at uni in spite of me studying for 5 and a half years.

Don't get me wrong, people will always label me as honest, dependable, intelligent and having a sharp sense of humor. I just get frustrated that the reasons for these types of labels comes from my interest int hem as people, rarely the other way around.

[Former-Member]

@Doc_Gonzo   I see so much of me in what you have written here.  I've tried to understand this too.  I can't speak for you but I can for me and this is what I've managed to "over" think.

First, I think my over thinking is my best friend and worst enemy.  It helps me get to the bottom of things but it also alienates me from those who view it as "over thinking".  I don't think my over thinking is over thinking. I think it's over thinking to those who don't think. If you get what I mean.

The alienation factor comes in because people view it like it makes me some how invincible.  That is to say I can somehow magically fly over everything because I do things differently than they do, and in some ways they don't understand it.  For some reason they seem to assume it means I'm immune, when I'm not.

It's almost like they are intimidated at my perceived lack of vulnerability, when in fact the opposite in true. I am probably more vulnverable than most I just don't show it because my way of coping is to try to think through it.  Doesn't mean I don't hurt just because I think. But so many seem to think those two are mutually exclusive for some reason.

I don't think the 'problem' is with me, necessarily, I think the problem is with their perception of who I should be.

I have no idea if any of that makes sense.  But there you have it.  Those are my thoughts.

Thank you for a very thought provoking post.

[sleepyboboes]

Thank you so much for this post and your ongoing discussion. I thought I was the only person experiencing this! You are describing exactly what I experience with everyone in my life. Unfortunately I was highly functional and highly distressed and at this point in my life I have been so highly distressed with a lack of support from both people who say they "care" and my medical practitioners that I am now only highly distressed, lonely and facing divorce. To be honest I have just joined this forum looking for reasons to keep going with life.

[Doc_Gonzo]

@Former-Member Thank you for sharing your thoughts. 

I was drawn to your use of the word 'alienation', for years I used the word 'Pariah' to describe my experiences with the world and it many ways I still seem to wear the label like a second skin.

People love to point out that I am fiercely independent and that I should be proud of that. Well first point, I never said I wasn't proud of my independence and often I speak of it as being one most recognisable attributes. My second point is that this was something that was forced on to me throughout my life, not something I actively developed so to speak. I had to learn to be independent as there was very little support or even recognition of my existence for a very long time.

People have no problem with the first point, the second one however, tends to shut down conversation. I am not having a go at people with the second point, I am merely stating a fact that is strongly linked to my first point. 

Thinking through problems can be a tough one and I relate strongly to those feelings of 'alienation'. Sometimes I feel like my own mind is my own worst enemy, not because of mental illness/ emotional instability et cetera, purely because I am 'too smart/intelligent/clever' for the world around me.

Your point about 'perception of who I should be..' is an interesting one. I am wondering whether you have anymore insight into why you think this could be?