Lived Experience Forum

[Eden1919]

@saltandpepper  That makes things difficult talking to your therapist sounds like a good idea. I guess just try and take it easy until you see them and can make some kind of plan. It is always kind of scary when new feelings or experiences start happening because we haven’t figured out how to deal with them yet. 

Um I am still having a bit of a weird time my call with my team today went a little um well let’s just say it wasn’t very useful but that is life sometimes I suppose, now I guess i am just on my own with it all but that is ok. 

[saltandpepper]

@Eden1919  I'm sorry you're not getting the help you need from your team. I wish I could think of something useful or helpful to say here. I don't think I'm in the right frame of mind for offering advice at the moment. All I can really say you're not alone. No one is ever alone with anything, unless we choose to be. I might not be able to make things easier or fix things for you, but I'm here, and I'm certain the rest of the forum members are too

[Eden1919]

@saltandpepper  thanks, I hope you can feel better soon. 

[saltandpepper]

Thanks @Eden1919 

Stay safe my friend

[Surfer37]

Firstly, WELL DONE for posting this. You've basically posted as a journal entry, which allows us into your situation in a very authentic way, which allows people to help in better ways. If you don't journal, I suggest getting into it. Even if all you do in a day is take your kid to school, journal, sleep, pick your kid up, it's progress. Journaling for me has been like therapy. Sometimes you just gotta get those thoughts out, and when you read them back, you realise things that you couldn't piece together in your head.

You've basically described me at the start of 2020. I was completely destroyed. Riddled with moods, anger, depression, anxiety, self hate for how I treated my kids. I get it. At my lowest point in that period, my family was away on holidays without me because I had to work. I spent a weekend alone, on my bed, trying to stop my hands from pulling my brain out. Because I was so plagued with everything you just mentioned, I wanted a new brain. But it wasn't me trying to hurt myself. It was the dark feelings, thoughts and emotions that plagued me. So I was literally fighting my own body and mind. It sounds hard to imagine, but that's how it was. I'm a person that believes in good and evil. I believe that was the climax of a lot of evil plaguing me and wanting to end it for me. Hence the types of nightmares you get.

However, what you need to remember about that evil/negatives. I like to keep it light by saying negatives. Is that negatives have no power over our own will.  Negative wants us to stay in a slump. Once in a slump, the thoughts start to manifest. The self loathing increases. The guilt of how we treat our loved ones manifests. Then we get stuck in that seemingly unbreakable wheel of emotions and behaviours.

On the flip side however, it doesn't have to end there. The rest is our choice. Yes we are being crippled by a mental illness. But we get to make our own choices. And by just choosing to simply journal once per day for a week is a huge achievement. Then the next week you might have 1 coffee with a friend you know will help you, or make you laugh at least. Then the next week you choose to take your kid to the beach. Before you know it, 3 weeks later you've implemented 3 positives into your life, and you begin to feel lighter, happier, more capable, less depressed. This is where you find the other perspective in life. Sometimes we don't get those nice surprises in life that change our circumstances. Sometimes we have to work for opportunities. If we keep chipping away at the positive achievements, opportunities come knocking, in time.

I know your struggles. I've battled depression for 16 years. I've battled moods most of my life, I've only just understood how they work.

I've been from where you are now, through trauma, mood disorder, nervous breakdowns, personality disorder, psychosis, suicidal twice and about 10 other diagnosese inbetween I still need to learn about.  If I can give you 1 piece of advice, please don't follow in my footsteps. It is really ugly and sad. I have left a trail of trauma and destruction for my family, that will take years to heal. Sometimes we need some big mirrors to show us a better perspective. I know my experience is an example of what not to do. I went way to far down the rabbit hole, and almost never came back. I focussed far to much on life's negatives, to the point that they controlled me and my behaviours.  I couldn't control myself, and I'm a guy that trains MMA, so that's a dangerous combination. And believe me, the thoughts in my head, were extremely dangerous.

Based on what you said, I know you can relate to me. But I really don't want people to end up like I did. My 8yo is riddled with depression, anxiety and ticks like tourettes ticks, and I played a massive role in the cause of his struggles he still faces. I  created an environment of trauma. It still guts me.

But I can tell you, it all gets better. I'm still recovering, but I've improved 10 fold. My marriage is mending, my son is improving in leaps and bounds, I'm up and down with my progress, but what has stayed unbreakable, is my mindset. It honestly feels like a new me. Going through all the shit we do, happens for a reason. It strengthens us, so we become stronger people. Stronger, better parents. This world is so messed up and negative. So it takes some strong willed people to pick themselves up, and the people around them, to help each other move forward in life, through the crap life throws at us.

I know where you're at is hard and feels hopeless. But please just remember that feeling hopeless is just a feeling. There is ALWAYS hope. And yeah, sometimes it's all we have. But hope gets a lot of people, through a lot of tough, seemingly hopeless situations. Not sure of your beliefs, but throwing out a prayer or 2 never hurt anyone, it costs nothing, and no-one will ever know you did it, so no need to feel anxious. 

i HOPE this HELPS. 💜

[saltandpepper]

Hello @Surfer37

Look, um, I know I'm not in a very great state of mind right now so I'm going to try really hard to push all this anger down to respond to, what I'm sure is a well meaning, post.

I'm glad you feel like you're able to relate to my post, and I hope you get something out if it. However, I feel like you're making a few assumptions there.

The types of nightmares I get are not "evil" plaguing me. There's no mysterious entity at work. The nightmares are a symptom of PTSD, and it's something that I have dealt with and will continue to deal with, I imagine, for the rest of my life. And I don't believe having negative thoughts is "evil" at all. Negative thoughts and feelings are just as valid as positive ones. The only way to really conquer that is acknowledging the bad feelings, accepting them, and understanding where they've come from. Bad feelings serve a purpose, it's not a source of "evil" trying to drive you mad. In my experience the more you try to turn a blind eye to the bad sh*t, the easier it is to become consumed by it.

And yeah, as you've pointed out you're "not sure of my beliefs", so perhaps it would be wise to refrain from offering advice from a religious stand point. Religion is a hot button issue for a lot of people, and as for me, the only way I'd ever get down on my knees and send off a prayer is if someone held a lollipop to my head--but maybe not even then.

I know, you took a lot of time writing out your response, and that's very kind. I appreciate you were trying to offer support here, but mate... Try not to make assumptions about where people are/have been. And if you're going to start spouting religion, make sure you're not bringing up the subject with someone that has a lot of issues with it first.

[Surfer37]

100% I may have assumed your position is similar to mine, I apologise for this. Only good intentions but I am still only learning how to help people with my experience, trial and error I guess. Sorry if I caused a trigger for you, completely unintentional.  I'm a lesson learner and you being honest with me, about me, teaches me where I went wrong, so thank you. 

In regards to religion, I didn't imply religious beliefs at all. I don't like how religion has impacted this world, i grew up in churches, my dad was a pastor, I still have issues around religion, so I know the damage they can cause. They are some of the most judgemental and hypocritical people on earth.
I choose to believe that spiritual is very different to religion. Religion is a man made construct...most things man made in this world are tainted...because human nature is tainted.

However I can see this is a trigger for you and I don't want to keep going down this path.

Obviously I triggered off some feelings for you. But, if you can manage to overlook the negatives of my post. Is there anything you can relate to? Yes we all have our different histories that lead us to today, but in regards to processes and I guess how the brain works. It is the one thing we do all have in common, we are human, and we do have the same human make up. So yes, we do have our different histories and experiences, because we are all different. But we do have the same human components and make up...that's how I see it anyway, and I think that's how doctors train. They train to help the people that fall off track, get back on track.

Hence the beauty of mental health services using people like us with lived experience to be able to help others with. So we can relate with each other, because we are all human and able to relate.

For myself, which I still struggle with, is being able to relate with the right people about what I have gone through. And personally, I struggle with self help apps and tools, because I actually want to talk and relate with someone.

I'm sorry if I got off on the wrong foot, and assumed too much. I can see you are a very active contributor to this forum, so clearly you care for others and know how using experience to relate does work.

If you're happy to keep talking, maybe you could lead me in the right direction, or maybe I can ask questions, or maybe you can just politely tell me to shut up.

[saltandpepper]

@Surfer37  Well, I feel like an ass. Admittedly my temper is running hot at the moment. I can see you're eager to connect with others here and offer your insight and support, I think that's great. And I'm sure I'm guilty of this too, but sometimes when we want to help people so badly we can accidently ignore their message in a bid to rush them to recovering and "feeling better".

And yeah, sure, to some extent I can relate to what you've said. Living with depression for 16 years, yeah I can relate. Been a long time for me too. But, I think we have a different approach on dealing with it. I spent a lot of time denying and dismissing my feelings, and trying to do the "positive thinking" get on with your life deal, but it didn't work. You can't get better without addressing the problems first. I've come a long way in the past couple of years but "positive thinking" has had nothing to do with it. Accepting my anger, giving myself permission to feel angry and understanding where it's all come from is what's helped me. In a sense, I have to go backwards in order to move forwards.

And yeah, sure we're all human, but I don't dismiss that the experiences we all have are what have shaped us into the people we are today. I don't believe in a one size fits all for treating someone with mental illness. The brain is a complex organ, one that science still knows little about, and what we know now is different to 20 years ago. Hell, PTSD has only become a recognised condition in recent years. The treatment one person requires is going to be different to another person, and even people who have the same diagnosis, they are going to need different treatments/medications too. Yeah, we're all human, but we're all different.

And uh, sorry about lashing out at you before... My bad. Let's just steer clear of religion.

[Surfer37]

😂 I get the religion trigger. Completely valid.

Thanks for this, as I said I'm still learning. I appreciate we all need a different approach. I just had a conversation with my local council this arvo talking about youth works, mental illness, suicide prevention and how to start implementing tools and approaches. The one thing we all agreed on is that we are all different and the approach of mental illness almost needs to be customised per individual, unlike the way services are currently structured. This was a huge part of my decline; not being helped in ways I liked, just opinions and meds forced. Which may work for some, but was aggravating for me being a mind, body, soul guy. So I do get it.

You did address something which is a character trait of mine. I do get eager when I want to help, and overlook things where I should sit back and observe. Hence the multiple diagnoses of bipolar type stuff.  So I guess I can say thanks for putting up a mirror. I need these mirrors!

Don't feel like an ass. One thing I've learnt is if we can't say what we feel in a safe space, even if it means lashing out, then how can we learn about ourselves? It's part of the process i think. My wife and I are getting much better at this. For us, we put the triggered emotion down to a trauma, or an emotion being triggered, and recognise it for what it is. It's not a personal attack, it's an uncontrollable emotion.

I can easily say that my chronic mood disorder was literally all of my trauma and emotion sitting in the back of my mind, ready to come spewing out at the drop of a hat.  So I get emotions, this should be a safe space to work through these moments. I think we've both learnt something  about each other, and ourselves. I see that as progress and forming a relationship. Heck, if friends can't say how they feel, then are they even friends?

As you just mentioned, I did spend a lot of time thinking I had to go back and work through all of my negatives, before I could progress forward. I guess I'm just wired differently. I haven't at all just moved past things by ignoring them. I'm a builder and problem solver by nature. For me, I listened to some advice and accepted for myself that I can be at peace with the problems of my past, whilst moving forward. Being at peace does not mean I detach my memories and emotions. I think I just accept that they exist, and will be triggered here and there in the future, but I really don't like how I let those negatives dominate and dictate my behaviours. That's how it is for me anyway. I was completely OUT of control, but I thought I was IN control.  Hence the different reality I formed around myself.

I completely appreciate your process. We don't always have the advice that suits us, so we end up needing to navigate alone sometimes.

I say positive attitude, but I don't neglect normal emotions. We of course need to feel these, sometimes for extended periods so we can process. Because things got so out of control for myself, I need to keep my thinking quite structured, like a formula so to speak. Because I can't let myself go back to that place. The damage around me was far to severe.  I'm just pretty focussed on learning from those events and mistakes, and building from them, a better mindset. One that will keep me out of trouble, and my family safe.

Have you heard of Daniel Amen? Check out his Ted Talk. Also Amen Clinics. This is something I struggled with our lacking country not providing, but I may be wrong, there may be similar services on offer. He is a psychiatrist that conducted 83000  brain scans of patients over many years, carrying out research.  I completely agree with his concept of addressing the brain. The brain is the most complex organ in the human body, yet our doctors only try to address our problems through our symptoms, where there could be an underlying issue, that could be found through a scan and the right doctor. 
We break a bone, or get a cancer, they scan and address. Why not the brain, the organ that runs the whole body?  Just something to think about i guess. I'm always open to possibilities for myself, this certainly highlighted some facts for me.  He's done the legwork and explains his process really well, so for me it is hard to not agree with him.

Link:
<span;>https://youtu.be/esPRsT-lmw8

[saltandpepper]

@Surfer37Mm, we're possibly about to disagree again about our pal Amen. I'm all for the general concept of furthering our understanding of the human brain, scan away my friend. But from what I understand about this guy and his practices is he's not been transparent, and a lot of his clinical trials were operated without control groups. In my opinion, I'd align this guy closer to a cult leader than a modern day medical marvel. But, that's just how I see it. I'm a sceptical person. I've been doing a lot of reading the past couple of years around trauma and the impact it has on the brain. Not everything gels with me, I take what works for me and leave the rest. I'm leaving Amen with the rest.

But yeah, if someone wanted to scan my brain I'd be keen. Sign me up for sure. I'm a sceptical person but I have a lot of faith in the psychologist I've been seeing. I trust that he doesn't need a brain scan to see where the problems are and address them. For me, the issues I have, I don't imagine a brain scan would allude to anything that I'm not already aware of. Be interesting to see for sure, but ultimately I don't imagine it would change anything.

Yeah, reading your responses, you sound like you're much further along than I am with the whole dealing with sh*t process. It's only been in the past couple of years, since seeing my psych, that I've started to face the reality of it all. I'm just learning to sit with it at the moment, and I'm not in a rush to get to the next stage just yet. In order to get to a point of acceptance, I've gotta take the time to work through everything that's happened and the impact it's had on me. Maybe one day I'll get to a more positive space, like you, but for now, where I am is still a whole lot better than it was for me 3,4,10,15 years ago. But, you know, most of the time I manage OK. Just taken a slight detour of late. Still coming to grips with the PTSD side of things and trying to navigate that sh*t storm.